Circularity and the Future of Sustainability

Nick Boever:

Hello, everybody. My name is Nick Boever, editor of DesignWell365. Welcome to the DesignWell podcast. Today I have with me, Laurence Carr, a designer who has made quite the name for herself in the realm of wellness and sustainability, where others have mostly dabbled in it. So, before we launch into our interview today, I’ll give Laurence a chance to introduce herself.

Laurence Carr:

Hello, Nicholas. It’s great to be here, thank you for having me. So yes, my name is Laurence Carr. I’m the CEO and founder of Laurence Carr Inc, an award winning New York City-based design firm, specializing in originative and sustainable interiors that promote health and wellness in residential and commercial interiors. I am also a passionate advocate for the circular economy and work to educate people within the industry and among consumers about the importance of circularity. I do this via my EarthX TV original series, share my services as an ambassador of a Sustainable Furnishings Council, my work as an interior designer and product designer, and as an expert on trade shows, panels and podcasts like this one.

Nick Boever:

I’m glad I could definitely help spread the word on it, because the circular economy is definitely something that, I just got back from KBIS recently and it is it’s definitely something that a lot of people seem to be talking about now. But as you mentioned, you have the wellness and sustainability angle in your business, but I figured today we can definitely talk more about sustainability. So I was curious because reading back through some of the interviews that you’ve done previously, you once said that your introduction to wellness came from this passion of meditation and spirituality. And I was wondering if your introduction to sustainability had a similar colorful story behind it?

Laurence Carr:

What a great question. Yes. I mean, as a European, sustainability has always been prominent in my upbringing, in one way or another I’m French, as you can hear, and we always heard about sustainability for years as I grew up and as some pressing issues became clear. I’ve always been mindful about where my food comes from as well, we always eat fresh ingredients from my grandmother’s garden, and then we go to Farmer’s Market and we’re very connected to nature, it was part of my upbringing. And once I was in the interior design industry as a professional, and that happened later, I was stunned to learn how much of our industry contributes to waste, that was quite staggering.

So, for example, the build environment contributes to about 40% for carbon emissions on the planet. And as we have heard in the past, according to the EPA, we see that furniture waste generated by Americans in 2017, total was staggering 12.2 million tons, and that number is much higher now, and at about 80.2% of this amount went to landfill. And then the same goes for textile, in 2018, 11.3 million, tons of textile went to landfill waste. So when you see this, you just wonder what can I do? The other thing that, in relation to the wellness, in relation to sustainability to answer your question, the 275 billion wellness related market and building for human health, are key agenda topics for ESGs. We talk about this in this multi trillion dollar global wellness, they’re going to meet. A key topic is the powerful connection between the build environment and our physical and mental health, and the many directions that the building well trend is now taking.

So with this post pandemic era, there’s a sharp sense of urgency. I mean, more people are demanding their places, we see that with our clients, we see that with our colleagues, more people want places where they live and work to be built to foster physical, mental, and social wellbeing. And projects around the globe are really truly being reimagined with human health and wellness at the core. So, we really truly see that human wellness does not exist in a microcosm. And so this information that I just shared, some of it and the notable gap in the industry’s prioritization of sustainability is what inspired me to start my own firm with sustainability as a whole mark of our mission.

Nick Boever:

And so how do you see sustainability fitting into wellness design? Do you see these as two things that stand separate or two things that are very closely intertwined with one another?

Laurence Carr:

Truly the health of people and of our planet are inextricably linked. If we don’t tend to one, we lose the other. And we spend the majority of time indoors. Think of it this way, if we are what we eat, then we also are what we surround ourselves with. Toxins enter our bodies through the air we breathe, the surfaces we touch, and the materials we clothe ourselves in, and the materials and polishings we surround ourselves with. So if we’re not mindful of sustainability in all areas of our lives, the effects lead into us and disrupt our physical and mental wellbeing. I really truly think that sustainability ensures that we use healthy materials that support human wellbeing as well as environmental wellness. And this ensures the systems by which we design and build environments for humans and also protect the environment outdoors.

Nick Boever:

Yeah, I think this is something that’s definitely a lot of consumers have started to do at their own levels in a lot of ways. You see that a lot with the different antiquings that a lot of people will do, that’s become very popular in post pandemic design, especially, among members of my generation, where you have so many different benefits that come from it. You have all of these pieces of furniture that are getting reused that otherwise, like you said, would’ve gotten probably thrown away, put into landfills. But just from a wellness standpoint, when you are reusing these products like that, there’s very distinct benefits to health as well, where new products generally off gas the most within, I think, it’s about like two years of first being acquired. But you don’t really have that problem with antiques, because all of the off gasing has already been done.

Laurence Carr:

That’s right.

Nick Boever:

Barring that they’ve been in use for like two years. So do you think this is becoming, I mean, obviously we just mentioned that consumers are latching onto this idea a lot with their own DIY approaches to it. But do you think this is becoming a more practiced idea within the industry than when you first started this idea of up cycling and recycling with materials?

Laurence Carr:

Yes, I do think it becomes really a topic at the forefront of everybody’s mind, so much waste. About 23% of the national waste stream is estimated to be construction and demotion waste. And then to give even more numbers, the annual construction waste is expected to reach about 2.2 billion tons globally by 2025. So what do we do about all of that waste? We have to address this and therefore, if we are aware of what goes to the landfill and what goes to waste, it starts with what we do on a daily basis and how much can we address that? For us as designer specificiers, it is our duty to be part of the solution, but for any consumer, and we are all consumer whether we are in the trade or not, is that how do we consume, can we reuse? Especially, when we start renovations or new projects of any kind residential commercials, what can we reuse that’s already there? What can avoid going to waste?

So, yes, that’s very important. And this antiquing or really thinking about maybe also proposing more as a business proposal rental furniture is very important. I think there are more and more business emerging in the furnishings industry, I mean, Ikea is a leader in that world. But there are more and more businesses in the US east coast, we saw that the last two years emerging and really proposing to have these rental furniture. I think that’s great. That’s less that goes in the waste. So yes, antiquing is phenomenal, I’m an art collector and an antique collector, so yes, it’s a great question, there’s historical culture that goes with antiquing. But there’s also, avoiding waste and no chemicals, or at least, a reduced amount after so many years.

Nick Boever:

Now, when you’re talking to your clients about this, how do you generally go about it? Because I feel like there’s still this stigma among a lot of people that you say recycled or upcycled, and there’s that concept of it being reused and there’s still that desire to want to have something new. So I’m curious as to how your clients react to the idea of potentially getting a reused piece of furniture or a recycled piece of furniture?

Laurence Carr:

So, I just want to just explain that sustainability is not enough, we really explain circularity and how it takes sustainability step further. By seeking to design waste out of manufacturing processes, creating multiple life cycles for our precious resources, keeping junk out of the landfill and carbon emissions out of our atmosphere. And we truly explain that it’s the best we can do to reduce and even reverse the impact of our industry, that impact that our industry has on climate change. Now, we never stop talking about sustainability and circularity with our clients, it’s part of why they seek us out for, and a key part of our mission is to not just create a space and say, Hey, enjoy, but rather create a space, explain why it’s sustainable, why that matters, and give them actionable ways to really continue embracing sustainability in their lifestyle as well.

And as I mentioned before, I think, for clients knowing that they live in a healthy environment, they really are curious to talk about what is sustainability? What is circularity? So despite the supply chain issue, we really explained where a product was sourced, how it was made, what is inside the product that we are offering or the client is purchasing? And how it can be used. I hope I answered your question.

Nick Boever:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. So it just sounds like education plays a big role in a lot of these conversations, whether the client is new to the idea of circularity, or even if they’re very familiar with the idea of circularity, just being able to keep them informed of what products adhere to that?

Laurence Carr:

Yes, absolutely. It’s becoming a more practiced idea within the industry and also with clients. I’m truly encouraged by the attention being given to sustainability and circular design, really in architecture, interiors, and furnishings, as well as, clients. They truly are actually really interested and really making informed steps to make decisions. So it is an educational conversation, but on both sides, it’s not like clients are not aware, they’re aware.

Nick Boever:

So when it comes down to sustainability, that’s in the beginning at the very least, I’ll say in the beginning, when this first started getting talked about. It was mostly associated with a higher price tag, and I feel like that stigma has latched on up until this point, but in most cases, at least, from what I’ve seen, even if there is a higher price tag, when it comes to a sustainable product, it’s not too far off from the main product. But with all that being said, the only reason I bring up money is because it’s the dirty thing that nobody likes to talk about within the industry, but also everybody really needs to talk about within the industry. Have you noticed at all… I guess, what I want to say is, is that higher price point, if it shows up, is that a concern to clients nowadays? Or do you find that they’re more willing to pay a little bit extra for that sustainability element in their home?

Laurence Carr:

Yes. No, that’s very important to talk about this topic. The younger generations seem much more willing to view sustainable design as an investment in the future and the future of a planet. And I’m talking mainly about millennials and generation Z. Generation Z are super educated and they have a computer in the hand of a palm, and they really know what to expect and how to educate themselves. I mean, they’re over the fast furniture craze and interested in home quality pieces, carotid with healthy materials that can stand the test of time. It’s incredible that young generation, and same with millennials. But, I’d say, other generations are truly interested in different price points.

I think you have to be aware of as a designer, architects, and builders, and all different specifiers to be ready to offer different price point, but just truly keep educating and explaining that sometimes. It might be a little bit more expensive and sometimes it is not, as you mentioned, Nicholas, sometimes it’s not anymore. And our core clients understand that you get what you pay for and are willing to pay higher prices for the peace of mind in knowing their interiors are healthy, safe, and sustainable. That aspect, the peace of mind, often takes over the higher price decision.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. No, it’s definitely something that, at least, from what I’ve been reading about a lot, it’s the case across the board that it does seem like people are definitely more willing to shell out some extra money in order to make that investment in their future. And I can even say that stepping outside of the realm of sustainable furniture, like we’ve been talking about, just talking about more sustainable home systems, creating more sustainable homes. Yes, it does start off with a higher price point than the average home, but over time, it’s those savings that you get from that home system that ultimately pays for itself at the end.

And I feel like that’s somewhat of a similar thing with when you’re doing the recycling, the upcycling, the refurbished products. So long as you are looking for a product that can last, that product is going to be with you for a while. I can even say with my chair that I’m sitting in right now, it’s a refurbished office chair, the expectation is that it’s going to last for 20 years. And in all honesty, when it comes to a chair like that, 20 years is sounds amazing to me, that’s 20 years, I don’t have to pay for another chair.

Laurence Carr:

That’s right. You’re absolutely right. That’s so important to mention, I mean, it’s investment, your ROI is really worth it. You put a certain budget within a product or a home you have built and purchased. And the return is fantastic, you buy quality over quantity. That’s still something that is valued and especially in sustainability and circularity.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. So for designers that are looking to enter into the circular economy, we talked about it being a matter of education in the beginning, and I think it is definitely a matter of education no matter what way you look at it. If you’re trying to find these products that are more certain that have that circular design to them, or they’re just more sustainable, in general, where would you advise for designers looking to grow out their business to start looking to find these products, or to just educate themselves more on this, I guess, this category of sustainability?

Laurence Carr:

Yes, absolutely. I would say, a shop with brands that use third party certifications, that hold them to high production standards such as forest stewardship council, OA cortex, the sustainable furnishing can sell fair trade goods. There are so many fair party certifications, but just learn what they each mean and then look for those brands. Demand transparency, truly, and when I say that from companies about how their products are made and what they’re made from, look on their website. Do they have a sustainable pledge, sustainability commitment? Most of them should have a page about that, and read about it and see if it really provide transparency about where the product comes from, how it’s made. What it’s made of is a key question. Always ask that.

Vote with your dollars by supporting companies with transparent processes and certifications. This probably answers our previous conversation, Nicholas. Small steps, you don’t have to fix everything right away, a cheaper way at replacing one thing after another, do the best you can with what you have and keep striving for better over time. That’s probably for a consumer point of view, but also for designers, when you design for clients who are interested in sustainability. Now, for designers, particularly, looking to adopt circularity in their practice, and I would say, learn about it. You have to be able to understand circularity and speak with expertise on this in order to best convey to your clients the importance of this practices. You have the [Mark Foundation 00:22:49] and many different organizations where you can learn about the circular economy. There’s so much information out there right now.

It’s really taking off worldwide. And next, very similar to consumers, source from certified vendors, demand transparency, vote with your dollars. Find ways to embrace secularity, not only in your own firm, but also in your conversations with your clients and your different colleagues in trade.

Nick Boever:

And so for designers that are working towards this, you had mentioned earlier, this idea that it doesn’t have to happen all at once. You don’t need to look at an entire home and say, we need to replace everything that’s in here. And so I was curious, when it comes down to figuring out where to start and sticking in line with the idea of designers being educators in their own when it comes to the circular economy, what would you advise for some of these designers? What would be some best practices to start introducing these sustainable elements into the home?

Laurence Carr:

Oh, you mean when designers are having projects and how they can apply those?

Nick Boever:

Yeah.

Laurence Carr:

So, yes, I was at KBIS, I guess, last week, and I was on the panel with Steve Feldman who runs Renovation Angel, a fantastic company that helps recycling kitchen nationwide. So if there is a renovation and you’re doing a new interior design, just recycle the entire kitchen, call Renovation Angel, they’re fantastic. And bathrooms, cabinets, and facets, and some of the plumbing. So again, it’s really about avoiding as much waste as possible. Once you understand the architectural bone of residents or a commercial space, just try to see what can be kept as beauty in some architectural elements and practicality in really keeping what is there and what can be upcycled there. Not everything needs to be just brand new and covered with brand new and surrounded with brand new furniture.

So, yeah, some of those are there. And so embracing sustainability is about reducing waste, and secularity is about aiming towards zero waste, and shrink your carbon footprint. What else can you do to reduce the carbon emissions? What furnishings can you go and look for? What textiles, what paint, what flooring can you use to just reduce the carbon footprint? So again, it goes back to what it’s made of, are these repurposed, are these upcycled materials? And also do not hesitate to look into bio fabricated materials, they are phenomenal new developments right there.

Nick Boever:

And that actually brings up a good point, just the idea of the other end of the process, I guess, talking about introducing that idea of circularity and sustainability in the actual renovation process. It’s one thing to be taking the products out of the circular economy, it’s the circular economy, so you got to feedback into it. And that makes a great point of just the simplest way to start off is that the next time you have a renovation or the next time you’re working on a remodel, just find an organization that is capable of recycling whatever you don’t want to keep in that remodel. And I think that’s probably the simplest way to start off, I guess, when it comes down to this.

Laurence Carr:

That’s right. Yes. So you really try to work as much as possible with companies like Renovation Angel and other companies that will help you recycle that waste and upcycle it.

Nick Boever:

Now, we’re actually closing in on the end of our time, and I had a couple more questions, but I think I’m going to have to cut them back before we head out. But the one that I do want to really ask is, at the top of our talk, I had mentioned that you were a designer that had really made a career for themselves out of wellness and sustainability, which is something that is generally unheard of in a lot of cases, because most of the time you’ll have designers that focus on design, but then they’ll also double in wellness and sustainability. But you have made an entire career out of it, you have a series on EarthX TV that dives deep into this idea of circularity and sustainability. And well I’d love to talk about that a little bit more. The question that I have is what guidance would you give for somebody who is looking to grow their own business in these categories of wellness and sustainability?

Laurence Carr:

Oh, thank you, Nicholas. Yes, thank you for mentioning my EarthX TV series shows, we filmed season one last year and season two is coming out this year, and it’s all about circularity in design, and I think, the conversation there really is very educative about the circular economy and secularity in the built environment and furnishings. I would say for those who want to grow their practice with principles, don’t wait, sustainability and security may seem like a fringe interest for still some people, but they have a standard in 2022. They are the standard, climate change is only going to become a bigger challenge and heart topic, ESGs are at the core of the focus of main companies. So, to get ahead now and show other industries how much positive impact we can all make with these small changes in how we approach our work and the world around us.

This is what I suggest, I suggest join local national or international organizations that offer support for either individuals or businesses that are interested in more sustainable and secular practices. You have a Sustainable Furnishings Council here in the US for whom I’m a very proud ambassador of. It’s a great way to start, you fill out a pledge that actually makes you revisit your sustainable practices. And then you learn and see many peers in the industry of furnishings industry, into your design industry, and can learn so much from each other. The Sustainable Furnishings Council offers working groups online, they’re free to join and if you a member it’s very phenomenal knowledge sharing. If not pursue professional certification that will help bolster your knowledge and keep you on the cutting edge of what’s possible, phenomenal online education opportunities.

Well, the International WELL Building Institute offer this phenomenal WELL accreditive professional certification. So, that’s phenomenal. You have International Living Future, phenomenal national organization that can also have you get living future accredited certification. There is a new school in New York city, you don’t need to go to attend in person online, you can get the healthy material lab certification for the building and learning all about healthy materials. It’s phenomenal knowledge you gain there, whether you are a designer, a professional in the furnishing trade, an architect, it’s phenomenal. Just enroll phenomenal online course. And Sustainable Furnishing Council become a green up, there is also a green leaders accredited professional certificate. There’s more, but I’m just going to stop here, but there is so much opportunities out there.

Nick Boever:

Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to come out and talk with us today and give us a lot more insight onto this. I guess, growing interest within sustainability, it’s really great to be able to see the concept of sustainability further grow out into these new channels. And the circular economy is definitely something that, just talking about how we were both at Caivis, it definitely does seem like this is something that a lot of people are placing a big focus on now. And so being able to talk to clients about that and get the word out there about it is really important. Especially as you say, the generation Z folk are definitely some of the most educated people out there right now, when it comes to being able to just look up anything on their phone at a moment’s notice. I guess, from this conversation that we’ve had it just maybe when I described education as a key point, I think, it’s about being able to have a conversation with the clients in this scenario.

Laurence Carr:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). It is. It’s very important, as you say, conversation. It’s not about forcing someone else, forcing one self opinion. It’s just an educational conversation and there’s true interest, we all want to feel well, we all want to address this climate change crisis, resources on our planet are scars, they’re not infinite. They are finite. And then the sooner we address the better. And there is so many new discoveries on how to make material out there. So it’s healthy, renewable, originative material is a fascinating topic. The more you learn, the more you want to be part of a solution.

Nick Boever:

Well, once again, thank you for joining me today. I hope you have the best rest of your day.

Laurence Carr:

Thank you so much. It’s been wonderful being here. Thank you for having me.