Unlocking the Power of Green Wall Acoustics with EzoBord

Nick Boever:

Hello everybody. My name is Nick Boever. I’m here with DesignWell365 and today I have with me, Doug Barlett of EzoBord and also the recently launched Quiet Earth Moss. Doug, I’ll give you an opportunity to introduce yourself before we get started.

Doug Barlett:

Thank you very much Nick, and it’s nice to be here this morning to join you for this podcast. My name is Doug Barlett, as Nick’s pointed out, I am the founder of EzoBord, and also we have recently launched the Quiet Earth Moss brand. I’m CEO of the Ayrsonics group of companies, which we’re situated across North America. So again, thank you for having me this morning.

Nick Boever:

Yeah, no, it’s great to have you on, and it’s one of those things where it’s, when I first heard about Quiet Earth Moss, I just heard about it from a press release. It was very interesting to hear. You hear about biophilic installations all the time, and I live in and around Boston, we have a big firm out that way called Cityscapes, that is big in the biophilic installation. But I’ve never really of preserved moss and these types of installations in general being used for acoustical purposes like you guys do with Quiet Earth Moss. And I was kind of wondering what prompted the move into this direction, to go from working on acoustics to add that biophillic element into acoustics.

Doug Barlett:

Well, I would say it started back in 2016, I was in Europe, and I had encountered a company up in Norway, two young gentlemen that had been promoting moss as biophilic treat meant for commercial spaces. And that was quite early on when you think back. I mean, that’s going back five or six years now. But it just struck me as such a perfect fit with what we’ve been doing with our EzoBord brand, and I can tell you when I walked into the small booth that they had at this show in Germany, it immediately occurred to me that the acoustics were performing very well. And it compelled me to ask him, “Okay, what do you have behind this moss?” And they said, “Well, nothing. It’s just kind of trade show hard booth display board.” And I said, “Well, that’s very interesting.”

So that stayed with me from 2016. And it’s just kind of like that. And it ended up when something of that significance comes across our pathway, it ends up being kind of a project concept. Over time we ended up encountering somebody here in Canada, also, her name is Carmen and she is the product manager for Quiet Earth Moss. And she was a specialist in the area, she was out of Alberta, she was working in this. So of course, when, when we met her and her couple of years in that industry specifically, kind of her path crossed ours, it’s like is the time to act on this. So it was really convergence of those things going back to 2016 and then meeting Carmen.

Nick Boever:

So 2016, I know that like obviously the idea to kind of formulate a company is a very long and extensive process, and there’s a lot that can happen along the way. And I know one of the big things that happened between probably then and the eventual launch of the Quiet Earth Moss was the pandemic. And so I’m curious if during that launch, and even to this day, because we still have the supply chain issues going around, if you encountered any challenges related to that, venturing off into this new kind of brand?

Doug Barlett:

I would have to say, yeah we did experience some, because the material is coming in from different points. Like I mentioned, Norway actually is one of the origins of this material. So it is being brought in by ocean. In some cases we’ve actually, when we got the beginning of our distribution going, it actually, some of it was being air-freighted in. But we’ve managed to overcome those supply chain concerns at this point. And we’re doing quite well that the growth of the Quiet Earth Moss brand is exponential for us. But again, we’re anticipating still some challenges this year, we would expect, as most industries are. But we’ve worked through a lot of that already, and I’m happy to say that we’re in a good place right now.

Nick Boever:

That’s really great to hear, especially with, like we said, everything that’s been going on right now. I’m kind of curious with just the idea of moss in general, you mentioned that you were shipping them over, shipping some of the stuff over from Norway at one point. I’m curious, have you ever looked into regional types of moss? Because I know, I personally come from new England, you had mentioned Canada, and I know those areas, very damp, very wet climates, that are very conducive to moss. And I like to go hiking all the time and I will just come across entire forest that are just covered in moss. So I was wondering if you ever thought of using any of like regional varieties in the boards?

Doug Barlett:

Very much so, Nick. In fact, we’ve been involved in discussions with an operation in Northern Ontario. We did bring in some material from that operation. And it is part of our supply chain plans. That is out Ayrsonics does function, we are very much focused on domestic supply and regional fulfillment as you and I had discussed before in our last call. And that’s very important to us. Any opportunity that we can procure material, raw material, locally, we will take a hard look at. In this particular case, that operation in Northern Ontario had some issues with their harvesting. There was some problem, may have been related to drought or some other things that have occurred. Being a natural product, there’s some things that will come up on the supply chain and that just you have to contend with.

So our strategy is to have a focus on continued supply of a quality nature. That’s number one. Number two, and right up there beside that is of course is trying to procure the raw materials as much locally as we possibly can. So that’s going to continue, it’s not like we’re going to walk away from that, we’re definitely not, we’re going to continue to explore those avenues. And that’s, again, that’s an Ayrsonics credo.

Nick Boever:

That’s really great to hear, especially from a design standpoint. Because I know one of the big things that always usually seems to come with local variety of plants, especially plants, is they always have a very specific character. They always have like a specific signature to them. And they always add a kind of, they add a specific element to a space more so than say an imported brand would. So that’s, like I said, really great to hear. So I guess kind of drilling down into the product a little bit more, what would you say are the benefits of a living moss acoustic installation over say a traditional foam installation?

Doug Barlett:

Well, first of all, it’s got specific acoustical characteristics that blend beautifully with the EzoBord product. When you encounter a combination of those two materials in a space, you’re going to notice the effect of the sound immediately, which is kind of has like a calming effect when you walk into a nicely controlled acoustical environment, that’s number one. But then of course on the visual side of it as well, having the greenery in front of you and also the overall impression that you get. So you’ve got two of our major senses that are responding at the same moment and that’s really important in terms of make making people feel good about being in the space when they first enter it, and it makes you want to remain there. And that’s something that we feel is going to be a big part of office reopening and other commercial spaces. And it’ll be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

In terms of acoustics, the moss behaves differently acoustically than the EzoBord material, and a lot of that has to do with density and the nature of the material itself. One thing about the moss that’s occurred to me is that it’s thicker and you could say of course it’s softer. So it therefore has different acoustic characteristics to it. And I would say it’s not picking up a lot of low frequencies, it’s typically going to be working well in the upper frequency range. This is my view of it and the experience I’ve had so far now, and I’ll qualify that by saying I’m not an acoustical consultant. I think I explained to you before I’ve had like kind of long history and acoustics, but it tends to come from the music production end of things.

Nick Boever:

Right.

Doug Barlett:

But I recognize what it’s doing, and it has to do with high frequencies. The EzoBord material is compatible because it’s absorbing it from very strong at the mid frequencies and going down, it’s kind of a curve like that. And in that case, the combination of those two things you could say is kind of two tuning the acoustics in that sense, they’re compatible with each other.

Nick Boever:

Okay. That’s very interesting. I kind of, I’m glad that you kind of talked about the range that moss will kind of accept as far as sound is concerned, because that’s one of the things that I, and I figure a lot of people will probably think about when they think of living, a living material, they think of it kind of being somewhat inconsistent, a little chaotic, a little bit different from what we are able to kind of like manufacture on a reliable basis. And I guess owing too that idea, I’m kind of curious, what’s the process like trying to figure out what moss board to build for a particular space, kind of going back to that idea of it’s organic, it’s natural, it has variations to it?

Doug Barlett:

Well, that’s a real good point. Essentially you could end up testing every day different permutations, they’re limitless. So you kind of have to look at it from a more broad point of view. And in that, there are certain kind of conclusions that you can make in terms of what amount of material is going to be added to the surface of an acoustical substrate like EzoBord of the moss. So is it going to be one inch thick? Because you’re going to deal with certain physical characteristics about the depth of it based on the design and what, what you’re trying to achieve, and of the material itself. What I’ve noticed is that there’s a certain consistency to the depth of the raw material itself, a certain scale to it, let’s say it like that. And then of course, as it’s being laid up, and it’s very much a manual artisanal process in terms of laying it up, and I’m sure you’ve recognize that in different installations you’ve seen images of, or in a real space.

So in a case like that, you start to see I would say kind of common applications for depth and just distribution or dispersion of the material itself. Those are the things that you would then commence to do kind of more formal testing on. And then you would lay it up with materials of a certain thickness. So again, coming back to EzoBord, we have standard thicknesses ranging all the way from, at this point, all the way from like less than a quarter of an inch all the way up to two inches thick with our whole new EzoLayers program. But most common thicknesses are three eighths inch and half inch. So you’re going to find that a lot of Quiet Earth Moss features are laid up on one of those thicknesses. So in that case, okay, now we’re starting to build something out that would be somewhat consistent. And it’s those things that you would send for the NRC testing, which is to the American Standard Test Method C423.

And that applies to any acoustical material, whether it’s moss or some composite of EzoBord and moss, this kind of thing, but it would still fall within that particular test standard. And that’s where it gets really interesting. Okay. Well, this is the density that we did, because you still have to track what would happened there. And how do you do that? Well, it’s going to be by weight really, when you think about it. Because that’s really the only way to do it, because you’re not going to measure each and every little tuft of moss, you can’t do that. Right?

Nick Boever:

Right.

Doug Barlett:

It’s going to end up being by weight. And weight has a lot to do with things. Mass has to do with acoustics as well. It’s another matter. So it’s, without getting overly complicated about it, that’s kind of really the shortest path to having some consistency on the acoustical performance of that kind of material.

Nick Boever:

Well, yeah, it definitely sounds like you have it down to pretty much a science at that point when it comes to designing everything. The other question I was going to do is kind of like a follow, up was going to be the length of time it takes to set up. But I’m assuming just based, you’re welcome to contradict me, but I’m assuming just based on what you said, it probably sounds like it doesn’t take any much longer than a traditional installation setup because you guys kind of already know what you need and what works?

Doug Barlett:

Yeah. We try to minimize the installation time on site, naturally that’s very important. Right? And also we build features such that they can manage the handling on a site and go up well and look fantastic, which they do. So a lot of that has to do, again, coming back to EzoBord, which is really doing a great job in terms of not just the acoustics, but it’s a very robust material. So it acts as the substrate for structural reasons too, as the moss is being laid up on a wall, it’s very important. So the speed of installation is always in our minds, in terms of doing custom features of the two materials together, and making sure that it gets there, of course, in good shape.

Nick Boever:

Nice. And I guess the other question that I have is a follow up to that, it’s the dirty question, I think everybody really hate to talk about it, but at the same time we all have to talk about it. What are the costs associated for one of these walls in comparison to say a traditional foam installation?

Doug Barlett:

Well, again, the acoustics market in general really has an extremely wide range. And you can go all the way from a few dollars per square foot, literally up to hundreds of dollars per square foot. And depending on the materials that you’re working in, the environment, the demands of the space, how you’re tuning the sound in the space, all these things come into play. Quiet Earth Moss tends to be, depending on what we’re doing with the material, the type of moss, and how it’s being laid up, it’s averages somewhere in the lower end of that spectrum. But again, to be honest with you, Nick, it’s usually quoted on a project by project basis depending on what we’re being asked to do. So within our realm, I would say the average that I’ve seen is typically between $75 and a $100 a square foot that is kind of an average, and that’s before any kind of project volume discounts or anything like that.

And what we try to do is we try to work within the customer’s, or the specifier’s, budget. It’s very important, because there’s a lot of things that we can do to value engineer our acoustical solutions. And that goes for both brands, or both brands combined, always. And sometimes a customer may be reluctant to say, “Well I’m not sure.” Or if they have a number they don’t want to say that up front. Right? But to be honest with you, it just saves a lot of time. Because we are always value conscious, we want to help our clients, we want to get the best possible result, and we want to do a beautiful job to make people feel good, it’s very inspiring for us.

So cost always does matter in qualifying that, and I’m glad you asked, because that’s something that people really often kind of don’t want to go there. And in my view, it’s better to give it up front, “Look, we’ve got $75 a square foot to work with guys, what can you bring to the table?” “Well, thank you for sharing that with us. This is where we’re going to start and we’re going to be the best that we can within your range.”

Nick Boever:

Yeah, just coming from a creative background, because I went to school for English for a while and I did a lot of work in creative writing, one of the things that I found, kind owing to what you say, it’s like, “Hey, so long as we can get the money and the limitations up front, we know what we can work with.” And I feel as though some of the best installations, some of the best creative work, usually comes out of having those restrictions placed on you at the forefront. So-

Doug Barlett:

It is, and yeah, and you could call them restrictions but in a way they are what they are, they’re realities in terms of what can be spent. The other thing that’s interesting, this is what we find in the acoustics business general, sometimes there’s there’s funding that can come from another area of the build out. Because we’re doing a few different things that add, in the value engineering process, where you are actually correcting some other things that they hadn’t thought about. So we like to explore those kind of things.

Nick Boever:

Oh okay. That’s very interesting. Do you have any kind of like specifics where that’s come up in a project?

Doug Barlett:

Yeah. For example, like, okay, in the case of coming back to EzoBord, okay, ceiling projects. Well oftentimes it’s like, “Okay, well, yeah we know we need some ceiling baffles. We’re thinking about doing baffles on these floors, cetera.” And oftentimes people are thinking about, when it comes to that product, individual suspension. Well, that’s a lot of time up on a skyjack if you’re doing thousands of baffles. Right? And each one’s individually suspended, and the time to install it.

Using more common elements, that might be coming from another contractor, like a ceiling grid, which we have worked up well in terms of mounting our materials to ceiling grids, because they’re commonly available, they’re cost effective, contractors know how to go in and do entire floors of them wherever they’re required. And we can mount to that. In fact, we got a patent just under a year ago for mounting our materials directly to T-bar grids. So if there’s a budget somewhere else for that, and they already know kind of how they got, they’re tightly dialed in cost wise., well we can carry that over to what we’re doing or say, “Look, you know what, we’re going to exclude that from anything that we’re providing and that’s over there and we’re going to help and we’re going to collaborate with that contractor to keep your cost down.”

Nick Boever:

I feel like, I know we talked about it a little bit earlier, how you have a kind of manufacturing facility out in Boston and my dad works out in Boston all the time, he’s a construction worker. He’s actually the one that’s usually putting up those ceiling grids. So maybe at some point you guys will cross paths on a job site or-

Doug Barlett:

I would love that. And the more that we can collaborate with people in the know of that high level of expertise, they’ve made a career of it, then there’s just a lot of interesting things, ideas, that come out of that, and it’s one of the favorite part of my job. Like it’s just to meet new people that are saying, “Hey, did you think about that?” It’s like, “You know what? It’s a great idea.”

Nick Boever:

Yeah. So getting back to the moss walls, what is the maintenance like on these types of walls? Because I know they are preserved moss, but I feel as though that’s like another big question that a lot of people have, like what’s the difference between preserved moss and actual living moss? And like, is there any maintenance behind them?

Doug Barlett:

There’s no watering required on preserved moss. It’s something that is simply installed without requiring anything on site. We have dry climates up here in the north, as you well know, in the winter things dry out. But I’ve been amazed to see how well it sustains its softness. That’s the thing to me that I find and most impressive about this material through the preservation process, you would think that it would dry it out, wouldn’t you?

Nick Boever:

Yeah,

Doug Barlett:

You would. And if you ever had a toy train set when you were a kid and you had the small trees and that kind of thing that were all laid out around there and you remember how bridle that was, and you touched it would kind of disintegrate. Anyways, this is not the case with preserve moss, it retains its humidity. And typically the life expectancy is somewhere in four and eight years in terms of it maintaining that. And that would depend largely on where it’s located in the space, having to do with whether it’s going to be subject to be touching or being bumped into in a corridor, whatever. But that’s on the website as well, in the Quiet Earth Moss website. So there’s a lot of FAQs that it’s very good information there, there’s a whole range of them. So I would recommend anybody interested in more detail about that, then please visit the Quiet Earth Moss website.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. It’s something that is very, I was actually looking at it a little bit before this podcast just to kind of like get an idea, because it’s like, it’s one of those things going into it I didn’t want it to seem like, as somebody who is really into these types of installations, I kind of wanted to be able to ask the question and, what are some questions that people aren’t going to know at first going into these types of installations? Like what is the average person thinking about if this is their first time hearing about an acoustic moss installation?

Doug Barlett:

I think a lot of it is driven by the need for more greenery in the space. I think there’s an emotional response to this material. This is what I’m witnessing, is what I’m feeling about it myself. That’s the first thing. Feeling good about being somewhere, that’s important, right? More so now than ever before, I think, and when I think about it. And so that happens to the first consideration. I think designers and other specifier are looking at it going, this is a really good place to do this, and I think given the nature, but maybe it’s the place where people congregate in the space. You want them to feel good. That’s the first thing.

And then the acoustic benefits, I think those are things that come behind that. What I’ve seen is so far, because to your point earlier, Nick, like you’re asking about, “Okay, what are some of the acoustic characteristics of the Moss itself?” Well, the range is quite a bit, kind of like the cost issue. We can go from A to Z depending on how it’s applied. So we will deal with each one of those kind of characteristics in due chorus, but I think how it starts is on the emotional level.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. And I would agree with that, a lot of the things that I have been seeing is just trying to get nature back into these spaces. And it’s something that like really, for me personally, really resonates with me because. Because as a kid I was one of those kids that always had the dream of I’d come across, I’d be walking through Kmart or AMES and I’d be looking at all of like the fake vines that they have sitting around. I’d be like, “oh, it’d be cool if I could turn my room into a jungle or something like that.” And I’m glad that everybody is kind of starting to think about that. Maybe not like a tropical rainforest jungle, but like turning it into more of a natural space. And there’s been a lot of research that’s coming out about these natural spaces, and not just like you said there’s the visual and the audio component. I mean, obviously there’s a lot of research that’s been done just into how a body reacts to being in a natural environment or a more natural environment.

But even the sound, there has been research done into the acoustical properties of nature and just how nature sounds, and how that can overall affect our health and wellbeing. There was one study that I saw that’s actually talking about water installation. So just like running water in a building. Not only is that an amazing sound masking application because it’ll surprisingly cut out a lot of like traffic within an area if you’re talking about-

Doug Barlett:

That’s great.

Nick Boever:

… a water installation in a city. But just the sound of water is enough to like lower people’s heart rates, kind of reduce stress levels in them. And so I think, like you said, acoustic moss is kind of one of those, it’s like killing two birds with one stone would be a bad analogy when talking about wellness-

Doug Barlett:

Nature.

Nick Boever:

… and sustainability, but that’s the only one that’s coming to mind. But that’s what it is, you’re striking two chords at the same time, and it’s some something that really resonates with everybody.

Doug Barlett:

Absolutely. And you’re making a musical reference there, it something that Jimmy Page said one time about this double neck guitar. Remember that? When he played live for Stairway to Heaven, okay. Well let’s-

Nick Boever:

Oh my god.

Doug Barlett:

Yeah. Well guess what he said. He said that he liked to lead the volume open on the second guitar, even though he was playing the one on the top, because it was in sympathy with what he was playing on the top. It was resonating in a certain way that he found very pleasing. And I liken that to what’s going on with the moss in terms of, you said striking two chords, which is making me think about this musical analogy. And I see it the same way. I think it’s doing a couple of things to us internally as humans that are very important. We’re resonating with it, we’re resonating with it visually, we’re resonating it with acoustically. And I think these things add up to emotional responses that us feel good. And we need more of that. That’s what it comes down to me, just kind of like Jimmy Page, he liked the way it sounded, it made him feel good. He loved it. Right? And I can see why.

Nick Boever:

Exactly. Exactly. So I guess we’re kind of, I’m just now noticing the time and I don’t want to hold you up for too long. I do have a couple of questions remaining. So if you’ve got the time, I’ve got the gumption to ask them.

Doug Barlett:

Please do.

Nick Boever:

All right. So getting into kind of what’s next in the what’s in the future of Quiet Earth Moss. I was actually kind of curious if at this point, just talking with you it seems like you have kind of like an extensive RND develop or department almost for testing out these new different types of applications. Have you at any point like looked into any types of alternative organic materials to use as an acoustical material? Because one of the things that I came across recently is mycelium, and basically the fungal network of mushrooms, which the way you’re nodding I’m sure you’ve heard about. But it’s one of those amazing things where it’s like you can make a brick out of it and there’s so many different applications, but one of the applications that I heard about it was for acoustical absorption essentially.

Doug Barlett:

There are a lot of fascinating materials both of the organic and inorganic nature, and the organic side of materials were very interested in our pursuing their acoustical characteristics. And that’s, to me, examples would be like jute or hemp or eucalyptus fiber, eucalyptus is a very interesting fiber, bamboo as well. And what I mentioned to you when we last spoke, Nick, we made a significant investment in production equipment. Well guess what? It’s going to work with those different types of fibers. Now, I’m not sure about the mushroom example. We’ll see what that all means, but that’s a very interesting one too. And why would we not pursue that? Of course we are, and there are plans for that. Now it may end up being an entirely new brand, and it probably will. So heads up on that and more on that would speak maybe next.

But we are looking at also materials of an entirely scrap nature, ground up carpets, denim, just all these things can be combined into acoustical substrates. And in a way, even if they don’t have A-grade, so-called A-grade surface finish on the material, it’s beautiful in its own right. And I think there’s going to be a trend toward having those raw materials repurposed with a visual statement reflecting what they really are. Right? Because I think it’s a reminder of what we need to do in general anyways, “Hey, let’s reuse this for this.” I was recently with one of my brothers, and he was asked me if I knew where he could buy a pair of sandals made other out of tired tread. And I didn’t have an answer for him, but I thought I like that, I liked the sound of that. So anyways, in you acoustic end, yep, more on that later. And, and thanks, I’ll make a note of that mushroom example, but we definitely pursuing that. And as we should, like I said.

Nick Boever:

I was going to say, the mushroom one is definitely on the more odder sides that I have seen, but I am a big nerd when it comes to kind of like those alternative methods when it comes to building sciences.

Doug Barlett:

Yeah.

Nick Boever:

Those are things that always like kind of get my brain sparking.

Doug Barlett:

I would love to share with you some of the things that we find out as we move forward, and it probably will be under a new brand, so another sister brand to both EzoBord and Quiet Earth Moss. But so more on that later, as I said.

Nick Boever:

I was going to say, I’d love to be in touch with you on that.

Doug Barlett:

Yeah. By all means, we’ll stay in touch. Yeah.

Nick Boever:

So I guess, and so sort of cribbing off of what you were saying with the jeans and like all of the recycled material and the different fibers, I think just kind of going back to what we were saying previously about it being, not just an acoustical aspect, but an aesthetic aspect for a space, having the options between all of those different types of materials really kind of opens itself up to a lot of different designs for spaces. Because that’s another big thing that I’ve been seeing a lot when it comes to sort of this revolution where the age old argument form over function is kind of starting to get obliterated because now we’re having these incredibly functional and incredibly aesthetic pieces that are being developed. And I feel like moving in that direction, it’s going to open up a lot of possibilities for designers and builders in general, to work with the interior design of a space while also making sure you that you have all of these really nice sounding acoustical aspects that kind of contribute to the overall wellbeing of a space.

Doug Barlett:

Absolutely. And kind of similar to the Quiet Earth Moss installations, which are each unique in their own way, because you think about it, it’s an artisanal method of putting them together in the plant. And the same thing would apply to these other materials. Each one is going to be unique when you think about. It’s not going to be combined exactly in the same way as some new product that’s coming off some line, it’s going to be unique in its own right, and beautiful in that sense. So I think as people that are involved in the commercial interiors business and interior design, I think we have to prepare ourselves for that. There’s beauty in that uniqueness. And I think our taste will eventually all kind of subscribe to that, I hope, because I think that’s where we need to go.

It’s going to allow us a better yield too when you think about it. Because if you’re making allowances for a variation of the material and it’s in a large installation, then it’s okay to have variation. And it means that you’re going to be using up to a 100% of what’s coming off the line, of those materials, which is exactly what we should be doing. So I think we do have kind of an adjustment we have to make that way as people in the commercial interiors business, we have to be prepared for that, but I think it’s going to happen naturally anyways.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. That seems to be the way that it’s going definitely.

Doug Barlett:

Yeah.

Nick Boever:

And so I guess, from my final question, and this is kind of going off of what I had just talked about with the different materials being perfect for kind of like designers and the interior design of a space, I’m actually kind of curious, because we’ve mostly been talking about these big grand scale installations. And I know that in general Quiet Earth Moss is more of somebody contacts you, you write up a quote, you do the installation for them. But is there any way for say like, an individual designer, or a remodeler, somebody who’s working on like a client’s home, is there any way for them to contact you to kind of just requisition like a product so that it can be installed in those homes, or?

Doug Barlett:

Yes, we do invite that. And in fact, a number of the products that we’ve made, even on larger jobs, when you break them down, they’re easily manageable. So they can be easily handled and applied by a consumer in a residential environment. There’s virtually no restrictions that way. It really just comes down to the size of the unit, call it that, this piece itself, going up as kind of like a tile, it’s a pre-fabricated tile that would have EzoBord and the Quiet Earth Moss ready to install. In some cases it’s going to be a peal and stick, depending on what, frankly, it’d be good to have it just if it’s mounted by mechanical means like just simple screws and this kind of thing, where it’s kind of hidden, instead of using adhesives, because it’s better for recycling down the road as well. But yeah, by all means, I mean, cartons of these kinds of tiles would be made available to clients that would like to do it themselves, the kind of DIY homeowners.

Nick Boever:

Okay. That’s very interesting.

Doug Barlett:

Yeah. We don’t have it on e-commerce at this point. It may come, I may sell you to you at some point, “Hey, Nick, check out the Quiet Earth Moss e-com site. Here it is for consumers.” But at this point it’s quote by quote.

Nick Boever:

All right. Well, that was great getting a chance to talk to on all of that. I feel as though I have come out of this knowing, a lot more knowledgeable when it comes to just the acoustical properties of biophilia or living moss in general, I’m always so bad when it comes to just closing comments.

Doug Barlett:

Yeah. Well, it’s always a pleasure to speak to you. I find that our conversations always take their own kind of path and that’s good, and it’s something I would really like to talk to you about is, I think we share a lot of the same kind of interest that way. And I’d like to engage that again when the time is right for us both.

Nick Boever:

Yeah, absolutely. And we’ll keep in touch as always.

Doug Barlett:

Yeah. By all means. So appreciate you having me on this morning, Nick.

Nick Boever:

And it was great having you come by. All right, bye.

Doug Barlett:

Okay. Talk to you soon.