Making High-Impact Choices for Air Quality in Hospitality

Nick Boever:

Here today, talking with Mark Schmidt of WellAir, who just recently signed a very big deal with Four Seasons to implement a new air cleaning service to the hotel. And so I really wanted to get into talking about that today. But before we go into it a little bit further, Mark, I figured I’d give you a chance to introduce yourself.

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah, thanks, Nick. Super excited to be here today. So yeah, I’m Mark Schmidt. I’m executive vice president of global sales for WellAir. So WellAir is a leading health technology company where we provide a solution to both air and surface disinfection solutions that are deployed into any number of applications from hospitality to commercial real estate to residential homes every single day.

Mark Schmidt:

We’re super excited to be part of the podcast. I’m looking forward to talking more about the Four Seasons and other topics with you as well.

Nick Boever:

Yeah, that’s great. And before we actually get into that announcement, I know that the solution that’s being used at the Four Seasons is specifically the Plasma Air product. And so I figured, before we get into that announcement with Four Seasons, it might be advantageous for some of the readers for you to go into what is behind the Plasma Air product, specifically the bipolar ionization and how that works in terms of air cleaning.

Mark Schmidt:

That’s a great question, Nick. So Plasma Air is our in-duct air disinfection solution. To your point, we use bipolar ionization technology to effectively remove viruses, pathogens, VOCs, molds, bacteria, et cetera, in any type of built environment.

Mark Schmidt:

And so bipolar ionization is a technology that’s been around for 70 years. Ions exist in nature and some of the most pristine environments around the world. Our solutions put positive and negatively-charged ions into the space. They either agglomerate and cause particular particles to become bigger; so as the air changes throughout that particular space, it’ll get caught by the filter; or they are deactivated.

Mark Schmidt:

We have really strong efficacy across those product sets being tested on some viruses and bacteria. And it’s also an extremely safe technology. And so we’re super proud of the solution. And obviously, to be selected by a brand like the Four Seasons is a testament to the product set that we’ve got out there today.

Nick Boever:

Now, when it comes to what you’re doing with Four Seasons right now, could you go a little bit more in detail into what that entire, I guess, project entails for you guys?

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah, that’s a great question. With the Four Seasons in Greece, we are deployed across their common areas, so think lobbies, restaurants, et cetera, and then also throughout their guest rooms.

Mark Schmidt:

And so when you think about a brand like the Four Seasons, which is synonymous with a best-in-class guest experience, they want to be able to provide the same amenities that they’re providing across their portfolio, whether you think about something as simple as service or as detailed as an in-room experience.

Mark Schmidt:

I think hoteliers have not really thought about air. And it took something like a pandemic for folks to really realize how important air quality is. Indoor air is five times more contaminated than outdoor air, and we spend 90% of our time indoors.

Mark Schmidt:

We’ve experienced the most significant global airborne pandemic in over a century. And so I think hoteliers and hospitality partners are starting to look at air as a piece that, as they look to bring back guests into their facilities, that they’re doing it in a really safe way.

Mark Schmidt:

And so the Four Seasons, obviously, was looking at and evaluating a number of technologies in their Grecian property and looked at us mainly because we are a science-based company. And I think there’s a lot of choices out there when it comes to indoor air quality and a lot of different technologies. And ours, we are a science-based company, we are grounded in making sure that the claims that we make are claims that we can back up. And we’re super proud of the strong story we have there.

Mark Schmidt:

We’ve got an outstanding medical advisory board headed up by a former US surgeon general and some of the most prominent infectious disease experts in the country. And so the Four Seasons could look to us as the experts to be able to provide the right solution and also have a number of products in our portfolio where we’re not a one-size-fits-all because indoor air quality can be different depending upon the application.

Mark Schmidt:

And so making sure that we’re coming from a place of a consultative approach where we can ensure that they’re delivering the right experience for their guests as well.

Nick Boever:

Now, given the stringent sanitization standards that Four Seasons has, because I’ve read up on a few of them from time to time, what was it like working with them? Did they have a lot of input that they were giving to your teams on a regular basis?

Mark Schmidt:

As a science-based company, I think a lot of our credibility spoke for itself where we had some really strong efficacy testing showing viral and bacterial reduction through not just SARS-CoV-2 but also bacteria and mold and other kind of bothers. Allergens are also something that hotels are obviously very aware of.

Mark Schmidt:

And so they were honestly very, very easy to work with. I think we worked with them closely on the design of the system to ensure that we were delivering the right amount of ions per cubic centimeter in the occupied space, but they would evaluate any number of technologies. And so I think for a brand like the Four Seasons, for us to shake out as the solution that they chose is a great feather in our cap.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. Now, you already have an extensive portfolio of hotels that you work with, and speaking to what you were saying earlier about how the pandemic really woke up a lot of people.

Nick Boever:

Originally, I think it’s easy for a lot of people to think that air quality is just related to the pandemic. So you figure that as it becomes more ingrained in the public consciousness, air quality needs start to die down a little bit because the pandemic isn’t what it once was. But have you seen… With working with all these different hotels, has that demand for air quality kind of petered out or has it steadily increased since the start of the pandemic?

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah, I think it’s continuing to… I think we’ve just now started to hit where you’re going to start to see even the hockey stick. Because I think when you look at hotel occupancy being down with business travel being down and personal travel being down right throughout the pandemic, hotels obviously took a hit from an overall revenue perspective.

Mark Schmidt:

And so I think sometimes it’s hard to be able to make CapEx decisions while you’ve got revenue in a bit of a hold phase. You had hotels that were cutting services and cutting different things to be able to try to maintain throughout the pandemic.

Mark Schmidt:

And I think now where business travel has started to increase and personal travel has started to increase, hotels are now looking at the pandemic almost as the catalyst to really start to make decisions. The same thing hotels were doing on allergens probably five or 10 years ago where we moved the hypoallergenic pillows and vacuum cleaners, obviously, with HEPA filters and things like that.

Mark Schmidt:

I think now it’s starting to look at how do I ensure that my building is protected? And frankly, how can I take credit for some of these investments? Right? Having the ability to say we’ve made the investment into ensuring that the air you breathe is as clean as it possibly can.

Mark Schmidt:

And regardless of what solution a hotel picks, making sure that they are grounded in the fact they’ve done their research and making sure that the testing that they’re using or that they’re referencing is accurate. I think them just making the decision right now is the most important piece because it’s becoming table stakes, it’s becoming something that people expect that the indoor air quality in a particular building is something that is important to them.

Mark Schmidt:

And you can look at building certification agencies like a WELL or a Fitwel or some of these entities that are out there, UL, coming in and certifying buildings from a healthy spaces perspective. And that’s not going anywhere. Hotels and corporations with ESG initiatives, which is related to energy and reducing carbon footprint, all that’s going to be tied… That’s already tied to indoor air quality and will continue to be.

Mark Schmidt:

So I think that whether it’s something like a hotel, it’s an office environment that we go to work in every single day, or it’s the most personal place in our lives which are our homes, indoor air quality decisions are being made every single day. And I don’t think that’s going to be slowing down anytime soon.

Nick Boever:

I was actually going to ask, from what you’ve seen so far, if that was pushing towards air quality as a differentiator. Because like you were saying, I’ve already seen that start to unfold within office settings, especially with the Great Resignation going on right now.

Nick Boever:

There’s a lot of people who are actively reconsidering where they want to work based on the environmental quality of the offices they’re in. So it’s very interesting to see that actually start to play out in the hospitality setting.

Mark Schmidt:

I think you nailed it. I think the commercial real estate or office application is a direct correlation. And I think Class A office owners and property managers across the country are feeling the same thing that hoteliers are where you’ve got to be able to put solutions in place that are going to cause folks to want to come back.

Mark Schmidt:

And you can look at survey data from some of those entities like a Fitwel or a WELL, and indoor air quality shakes out as top-three demands from folks coming back to the office. They want to know that they’re protected.

Mark Schmidt:

It’s not an unreasonable ask in any form. It’s something I think we’ve all taken for granted historically. And it’s taken something like a pandemic to put it at the forefront.

Mark Schmidt:

HVAC technicians, whether that’s residential or commercial contractors, have been selling indoor air quality for years. And that could be something that’s like a filter, that could be humidity or de-humidity, that could be an electronic air cleaner right in-duct, or it could be a standalone portable unit.

Mark Schmidt:

And I think that’s the really exciting part for me is there’s not the one-size-fits-all story, right? It’s really about folks that are coming in and providing those consultative solutions.

Mark Schmidt:

And to come full circle back to your question is, yes, being able to take advantage, right? Being able to show that I’m making this investment. And being able to take advantage of that investment that you’re making to show your tenants or show your guests or show your employees or show your family that you’re protecting one of the most important things, and that’s the air that they breathe every single day.

Nick Boever:

I think that’s really important too because I know ever since getting into the wellness and the healthy building category, one of the things that I’ve always seen come up time and time again is just the sheer daunting task that working with HVAC poses for a lot of people.

Nick Boever:

I know that’s a big problem in schools that have more aging HVAC systems and not necessarily the funds to upgrade that. And being able to provide those consultative services to give not really a one-size-fits-all solution but a very nice holistic solution for these areas that can help improve the air quality without necessarily breaking the bank.

Nick Boever:

I guess, owing to that, I also wanted to ask, since you guys have been working with HVAC systems for so long, are there any kind of… This is getting a little ahead of what I originally had planned, but are there any kinds of, I guess, suggestions you would give to hotels in general? Let’s just stick with the hotels for now, even though we’re bouncing all over the place with the different environments.

Nick Boever:

Any suggestions you would give to hotels for decisions they can do on their own part to help maximize their investments in HVAC systems?

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah, absolutely. When you’re working with an HVAC contractor, I always use the analogy that they’re the doctor prescribing the solution. They are experts in their space and they’re experts in indoor air as well as indoor air quality.

Mark Schmidt:

And so there’s a number of outstanding HVAC mechanical contractors out there, most of which hotels are working with every single day, they can come in and provide that recommendation. And in some cases, filters may be the right application. If you’ve got an older HVAC system, to your point, if you upgrade the filters, you may have to upgrade the full HVAC system, which could not be cost-effective.

Mark Schmidt:

Maybe in that scenario, more of an in-duct electronic air cleaning solution like bipolar ionization or another solution makes more sense. Hey, maybe it’s about the visibility of that protection. And a portable solution that can be visible inside a lobby or inside a restaurant or inside even the guest room really makes more sense.

Mark Schmidt:

So I think, yeah, it’s about leveraging those experts in the space. And I think right now for a lot of hotels, it’s this overwhelming what do I do and what do I pick? And there’s a lot of options out there. And how do I know one works better than the other?

Mark Schmidt:

So again, grounding the decision in science and making sure that you’re referencing testing, I think is super important. But also leveraging those industry experts that can come in and help you weed throughout the noise to be able to make sure that you are picking the holistic solution, to use your words, that makes the most sense for that particular application.

Nick Boever:

And I’m glad you brought up visibility too because that’s another thing that I’ve been seeing mostly from a consumer standpoint. In a lot of cases, you can have probably the best HVAC system out there. But if the consumers aren’t aware of that, they’re still going to be uncertain. There’s still going to be this concern over air quality.

Nick Boever:

And with all the work that you have done, I’m trying to think of a good way to word this, have you ever been asked to provide that visibility down to a guest standpoint?

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah, absolutely. Nick, I think two things there. One, I think that when you look at our solutions, one of our strengths is our portfolio. So we’re not just an in-duct solution, right? We have a portable solution that’s a visible, best-in-class, FDA-cleared IAQ solution. And we also have surface disinfection as well inside our portfolio.

Mark Schmidt:

And so there are some customers, again, that feel that visibility or that perception and protection is really, really important. It’s not just this invisible thing that’s up inside the HVAC system. There’s something there that a consumer or an end-user or a tenant or a guest can touch, look, see, feel to know that there’s something protecting them in that particular space. And so I think that’s one key component.

Mark Schmidt:

The second key component, in my opinion, is really reducing what I call the confirmation bias. And so to your point, you can’t see viruses and bacteria being deactivated or obliterated in a particular space. You’re taking the word for it of that particular professional that’s making that recommendation.

Mark Schmidt:

And so we see, across the industry, something that I feel is really the next frontier. I know you had a great conversation with Crestron as part of one of the podcasts. And you guys are talking about smart home and smart building.

Mark Schmidt:

And I think IAQ is really the next key component of that. It’s sensor-based technology that’s going to be able to show reductions in particulate matter, show an increase and decrease in indoor air quality, mainly as people are introduced to a space, right?

Mark Schmidt:

Because you can cycle the air as many times as you want to from an Air-Changes-per-Hour perspective. When you think about viral transmission and you think about all the data that we have now as a result of COVID as to how viruses are transmitted from an airborne perspective, having a solution that treats that occupied space while people are present, to me, is super important if you’re really concerned about viral and bacterial reduction and protecting those folks or those assets or whatever maybe that are really important to your business or to you as a homeowner.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. And that’s definitely something that I noticed over at IBS, the idea of sensors being used to gather all of that data, be it for indoor air quality or for energy management is another big one over there.

Nick Boever:

And I think that definitely plays into just a design trend that I’m seeing in hotels now where a lot of hotels are trying to cultivate this more residential feel with a lot of their spaces. And I feel like it would be a great way to pair them up together where all of these residential technologies are focused on being as transparent as possible. So I feel like all of the commercial technologies should follow suit as these commercial spaces try to mimic residential spaces a little bit more in their design.

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Nick Boever:

With all the work that you’ve been doing, I’m kind of curious, where do the priorities lie a lot of the times? Do you mainly work on these common areas or is it usually an even split between common areas and the guest rooms and other main areas of congregation?

Mark Schmidt:

With bipolar ionization, a benefit is it’s a really cost-effective way to treat a really large space. And so when you think about something like a hotel or something like a school or some commercial real estate, some of the other applications that you mentioned, it’s usually an all-or-none decision, which is terrific.

Mark Schmidt:

Because you think about the number of air handlers or rooftop units that a particular hotel would use, you can use BPI to be able to treat something as large as the Four Seasons in Greece in a really cost-effective way.

Mark Schmidt:

In some cases, filters can be expensive and you’ve got a scenario where you need to change them out frequently. Or to our prior point, HVAC upgrades can be expensive. I think our solutions are, again, ways that a hotel owner can really be able to market and to protect those guests in a manner that’s not going to break the bank. And it’s something that we’re really proud of.

Nick Boever:

And now, the other thing that I wanted to talk about before we wrap things up is COVID is definitely… One of the big things that I’ve seen is that a lot of talk about air quality mainly circulates around COVID.

Nick Boever:

And a lot of studies that I’ve also come across, the average consumer is getting a lot more educated and they know what air quality does to them, they know many of the aspects of air quality. But it also still seems like there are some gaps in knowledge there, mainly how humidity plays a role in it, how carbon dioxide plays a role with it.

Nick Boever:

And I’m kind of curious, with you working with hotels all the time and other commercial buildings, does COVID seem to be the core concern of people right now when they reach out to you for these air quality solutions? Or are they also reaching out with the understanding that this isn’t just going to be for COVID, it’s going to be for the particulate matter, for the VOCs, for everything else that’s in the air?

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah. I think you nailed it, Nick. I think that 12 to 18 months ago, it was a COVID conversation. Right? And I think now folks are becoming more educated on not just indoor air quality [inaudible 00:20:45], but also the other impacts that an indoor air quality solution can have on things like molds and bacteria and allergens and things like that.

Mark Schmidt:

I think hotels are becoming much more educated on the why’s and the what’s and are looking at it not as a COVID solution. And I think that’s really important to us. Right? I don’t think the industry wants to be seen as a COVID solution because it’s not.

Mark Schmidt:

Indoor air quality is something that, again, has been top of mind for folks even pre-pandemic. But ultimately, the pandemic has been the catalyst that’s really brought it to the forefront.

Mark Schmidt:

And so I think that hotels are looking at it from the perspective of, hey, it’s not just for my guests, it’s also for my employees and reducing absenteeism and increasing presenteeism and making sure that in a bad flu season, that we’re still maintaining occupancy rates that are really important.

Mark Schmidt:

Again, making sure that in an environment where it’s all about the guest experience, how can I ensure that somebody who’s suffering from allergies isn’t impacted when they come into my hotel? So yeah, it’s not a COVID story anymore. It’s really about indoor air quality in the broader sense. And we’re to help folks make sure that they’re addressing those questions in the right way.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. It’s definitely great to see that now, especially considering it’s one of those things where health and wellness started off as what seemed like a trend. And I’m really glad that it’s kind of evolving past that, especially with some of the things that I’m seeing right now with a lot of the different talks.

Nick Boever:

There’s a whole trend report that just came out recently that’s also very interesting in the ways that you start to see people identify. There was the impetus that got it started, like we were talking about with COVID. And then there’s the understanding of, oh, okay, this is why it’s good to keep this.

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah. You’re right. Take a hotel in a simple example. I’m a huge traveler, for both work and for play. And so one of the things that I would always look at when reviewing a hotel is the fitness facilities or the gyms, or the things that when you think about health and wellness, they’re core to what it is.

Mark Schmidt:

Or things like the Westin has done with partnerships with New Balance. And being able to ultimately have a gym in the building, you’d be able to have your clothes and your sneakers if you forgot them. But yet you would go to that gym and you’d probably be breathing, again, some air that was contaminated in not the healthiest environment on the planet.

Mark Schmidt:

And so I think on that front, just being able to really look at it from a holistic way to say from the time when I walk in the front door until the time that I walk out that same front door, how am I ensuring that my guests and my tenants are ultimately taken care of in the most effective way possible? So I agree with you. It’s just awesome to see it coming full circle.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. So one last thing before we go, I figure I’ll open it up to you because, again, you’ve been working with HVAC for a long time. And as we talked about earlier, some of the misconceptions that are out there. Is there one misconception that you come across time and time again that you really want to set the record straight on for people?

Mark Schmidt:

From an indoor air quality perspective, I think that there’s a one-size-fits-all solution for everyone. I think anyone that comes in and says that it’s only mine and only mine is the one that works, I think is ultimately something that I think we as an industry need to make sure that we’re providing consultative solutions.

Mark Schmidt:

There are some cases where filters are the right application. There are some cases where electronic air cleaners are the right application. Some cases where portables are the right application, some where just bringing in outside air might be the right application.

Mark Schmidt:

And so just making sure that as folks are making decisions, that they’re doing it right, leveraging professionals, leveraging HVAC contractors, leveraging architects or engineers or design firms that are out there be to be able to show folks that, hey, this is a portfolio of solutions that you can choose, but we recommend this one because of these specific parameters.

Mark Schmidt:

The HVAC industry is something that’s near and dear to my heart and something that has been a part of my career for a really long time. And so I think those guys are doing an amazing job of, again, being the doctor to prescribe the right solution, whether that’s anything from a hotel down to the place that you call home.

Nick Boever:

Well, it was great getting a chance to talk to you. Honestly, every single time I do one of these things, it just feels like the time flies right by. Once again, it was great getting a chance to talk with you.

Mark Schmidt:

Yeah. It’s great getting a chance to talk with you. I think, Nick, if I could just leave you and the audience with one thing is really about making sure that you’re thinking about indoor air quality. Again, two things; make sure that you’re focusing on the science and you’re focusing on partners that are standing behind the claims that they’re making. And two, leveraging those industry professionals to make sure that you are provided the right solution and the right service based off the needs that you’re trying to solve for.

Mark Schmidt:

We’re super excited to be a key component of any number of the leading hospitality providers across the country. And commercial real estate and residential and all those other things are no different. So I appreciate your time today and thanks so much for the thoughtful questions. And hopefully, we get to do it again soon.

Nick Boever:

Yeah. Hopefully, we do. And I’ll be keeping an eye out for you guys at the next hotel I stay at.

Mark Schmidt:

Perfect. Yeah. Or tell them about us. Either way.

Nick Boever:

Oh, absolutely.

Mark Schmidt:

Cool. Thanks so much, Nick. I appreciate it.

Nick Boever:

Thank you.